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    Improvements to the championship system

    Postby CbbK » Sun May 11, 2014 8:47 pm

    Hi everybody,
    As you have all already noticed, it often happens that the ranking of a championship phase is changed at the very last moment, and that players who don't have the possibility to be online at that moment will be pushed out of the champ, even if they were ranked in the first half since the beginning of it.
    For that reason, I'd like to introduce a new system based on a championship score, a new value which will reflect the rank you had during the last 24 hours of a phase.
    How will it be calculated? Every minutes, for the last 24 hours, the game will add to your current championship score the value (total players in phase - your rank). Beeing ranked 1st will give you the maximum possible amount, while beeing ranked last will give you 0 every minutes.

    Let's see an example :
    Phase 1 lasts 3 days, the first 48 hours allow every players to place themselves in the overall ranking. When there're exactly 24 hours left the game starts to display the championship scores.

    Player A is 1st, player B is 2nd, player C is 3rd, D is 4th.
    30 minutes later scores are :
    A = 30*(4-1)
    B = 30*(4-2)
    C = 30*(4-3)
    D = 30*(4-4)

    C takes the 2nd position : Player A is 1st, player C is 2nd, player B is 3rd, D is 4th.
    30 minutes later scores are :
    A = 60*(4-1)
    B = 30*(4-2) + 30*(4-3) <- 30 minutes as 2nd + 30 minutes as 3rd
    C = 30*(4-3) + 30*(4-2) <- same, they are exæquo
    D = 60*(4-4)

    B retakes the 2nd position : Player A is 1st, player B is 2nd, player C is 3rd, D is 4th.
    10 minutes later, scores are :
    A = 70*(4-1)
    B = 30*(4-2) + 30*(4-3) + 10*(4-2)
    C = 30*(4-3) + 30*(4-2) + 10*(4-3)
    D = 70*(4-4)

    D plays and goes up to the 2nd position : Player A is 1st, D is 2nd, player B is 3rd, player C is 4th.
    10 minutes later scores are :
    A = 80*(4-1) = 240
    B = 30*(4-2) + 30*(4-3) + 10*(4-2) + 10*(4-3) = 120 <- 30 minutes 2nd, 30 minutes 3rd, 10 minutes 2nd, 10 minutes 3d
    C = 30*(4-3) + 30*(4-2) + 10*(4-3) + 10*(4-4) = 100 <- 30 minutes 3rd, 30 minutes 2nd, 10 minutes 3rd, 10 minutes 4th
    D = 70*(4-4) + 10*(4-2) = 20 <- 70 minutes 4th, 10 minutes 2nd

    The list of players who will move on to the next phase will then be determined by the championship score instead of the vpts at the end of the phase.

    What do you think about this system?
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    Re: Improvements to the championship system

    Postby SpenceKwon » Mon May 12, 2014 1:10 am

    I am still trying to get my head around it :?

    Still think at first glance that it Might create more scenarios where a player feels hard done by.

    ill digest it all first :)
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    Re: Improvements to the championship system

    Postby MukuroY » Mon May 12, 2014 1:30 am

    I think I got it... But not sure how many it can change in the current system. Maybe you should implement it in the next champ to see how it will work and how ppl will get it...

    I mean it dont look so easy to understand and can put the players confused since the vpts and bonus they see at window would not be the real position at final of each round. Even it look fair to some players who can't play at the final hours and lost they position when they think they are qualified, it dont look really fair to players who play hard at final mins and got qualify... Well, I don't know... As I said, maybe we need a championship test to see it working! :?
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    Re: Improvements to the championship system

    Postby Saintsy » Mon May 12, 2014 2:01 am

    Yeah, this system really needs a beta test before a full release.
    I'm all for having ways to keep me qualified while i sleep, but this might be the wrong way about it.

    I'm 89% sure i totally understood that completely and the problem is, people can simply play and win 3-4 games right at the start of champ and not bother show as they'll be there the entire phase.

    Player A wins 4 straight games, Doesn't return until next phase and is bumped down to last qualify spot.
    Player B plays the whole phase, struggling to win, manages to knock player A out in the last couple of hours.
    No others play
    Player A due to being in the rankings longest, knocks out player B who fought hard to earn that spot.

    Correct? I could go on about it, but ill wait for confirmation that i understood it haha.
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    Re: Improvements to the championship system

    Postby CbbK » Mon May 12, 2014 9:01 am

    That's it Saintsy. This is why the championship score is calculated using only the last 24 hours of each phase, player A and B have the time to position themselves in the ranking. It requires playing the 2 days maybe, first day to get a rank, 2nd day to keep it!
    The championship score will be displayed on the game, along with the "Moves on to the next phase" for every players who'll made it if things stay as they are.
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    Re: Improvements to the championship system

    Postby Saintsy » Mon May 12, 2014 10:54 am

    I see. It does have potential, but on the down side this will promote less active play. I'm also seeing this new "Champ score" more as another "Bonus".

    People will score high and refuse to play to gain this other "bonus" to be completely safe. Which in turn will affect finals play. Get top score then simply stay offline till the last few hours to check things, play if necessary but if their score+bonus+ champ score are good enough, chances are they wont play.

    Then there are people who rely on playing in the final hours, whether due to timezone or life. In which, whats the point of playing when they'll have no choice vs those that are currently ranked in the qualify zone, accumulating "champ score".
    This system is targeting last minute rank changes, but at the same time its creating an Unfair system.

    For example, 2 players in a final phase whom haven't been in a qualifying rank at all start playing.
    Player A wins 5 straight games, which is enough to push him into 3rd, Plays another 2 players and jumps from 1st to 4th, back to 3rd with a few hours remaining.
    Times up and Player A is still ranked 3rd, but due to another player having a better "Champ score", he drops to 4th and misses out on his reward, purely because player C has had a qualifying position for say, 16 hours worth of "champ score". Yes, Player C had held that spot for longest, but does that mean they deserve it? Player A has a different timezone, one which isn't very active with champ players, yet fought for that top 3 spot but due to "champ score" they don't get it.

    I understand not everyone can be online at crucial times better than anyone else, but a system like this could be more harmful than good.
    But in saying that, i'm actually interested to see how it would work out in a champ rather than just theories so if its possible to implement for the next champ, i'd be all for it.
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    Re: Improvements to the championship system

    Postby Tiayviel » Mon May 12, 2014 11:00 am

    For now it seems pretty much like an opening for certain kinds of players to just camp at top spot.

    Most probable scenario: phase ends, player X farms someone ASAP the minute phase changes, and then just sits happy on high spot.. oh wait, that's your average scenario nowadays.
    What will change is that champ games will be played the 1st 24 hours of a given phase (not counting Registrations that is) and 2nd day will be a dead day. Biggest problem here: timezones, if you can't play when 24hr mark is closing in you are basically out because someone else will be ranked higher for a longer amount of time until you can log in and play.

    The introduction of this system will not fix the issues of the champ, but will give an opening for the campers to abuse it. Basically get lucky; stay on 1st and watch the points flow in.

    If anything, the main problem is the final hour of the champ where everything can utterly and suddenly change. I'd suggest something more along the following (numbers subject to change): 2 hours before phase ends 10% reduced vpts gain, 1 hour 25% reduced gain, 30min 50% reduced gain. That way people won't wait till last second to screw someone over with a few lucky wins, but will have to hold a strong position to place.
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    Re: Improvements to the championship system

    Postby Jack Daniels » Tue May 13, 2014 3:09 am

    Saintsy wrote:I see. It does have potential, but on the down side this will promote less active play. I'm also seeing this new "Champ score" more as another "Bonus".

    People will score high and refuse to play to gain this other "bonus" to be completely safe. Which in turn will affect finals play. Get top score then simply stay offline till the last few hours to check things, play if necessary but if their score+bonus+ champ score are good enough, chances are they wont play.

    Then there are people who rely on playing in the final hours, whether due to timezone or life. In which, whats the point of playing when they'll have no choice vs those that are currently ranked in the qualify zone, accumulating "champ score".
    This system is targeting last minute rank changes, but at the same time its creating an Unfair system.

    For example, 2 players in a final phase whom haven't been in a qualifying rank at all start playing.
    Player A wins 5 straight games, which is enough to push him into 3rd, Plays another 2 players and jumps from 1st to 4th, back to 3rd with a few hours remaining.
    Times up and Player A is still ranked 3rd, but due to another player having a better "Champ score", he drops to 4th and misses out on his reward, purely because player C has had a qualifying position for say, 16 hours worth of "champ score". Yes, Player C had held that spot for longest, but does that mean they deserve it? Player A has a different timezone, one which isn't very active with champ players, yet fought for that top 3 spot but due to "champ score" they don't get it.

    I understand not everyone can be online at crucial times better than anyone else, but a system like this could be more harmful than good.
    But in saying that, i'm actually interested to see how it would work out in a champ rather than just theories so if its possible to implement for the next champ, i'd be all for it.


    Quoting this post really hard and agreeing with it. CbbK, please read Saintsy's post above carefully ^^^^^^^

    Adjusting the system to be more beneficial to those who player during certain time periods of the champ, will certainly lead to unfairness to players who cannot play till later during the phase. I understand the "issue" (altho don't actually agree that it truly is an issue...as people have mentioned above, the reasons why/why-not), but adjusting the system like this will be unfair to certain players.

    no advantage to anyone, regardless of when you during the phase, is obviously the most fair...even if you get bumped out at the end. if someone gets bumped out towards the end because they played worse than the guy/gal who bumped them out then uh...lol, so be it; thats how its supposed to work! zero advantage = the most fair, period. by definition
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    Re: Improvements to the championship system

    Postby emilymerion » Tue May 13, 2014 2:36 pm

    I don't like this. In the last championship To rule them all I was third at the final, but I couldn't play in the end so I was pushed out. Although this system seems to be made for avoid similar situations, I definetely say no to it:
    1) players will be less active if they'll reach a good position, giving the others no chances to recover
    2) the ones who belive to be safe could be pushed out at the last minute if they can't login at that time
    3) the problem remains

    Maybe we could find a better solution.
    A little suggest for improvements: remove the bonus in the last phase of the champ.
    When the players are reduced, a +20 for X could be a problem for Y, which has only + 10 and can't gain more bonus cause the players he need for a +20 are out.

    Anyway, this championship system need a test. What about this saturday? Will there be a test or an usual champ?
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    Re: Improvements to the championship system

    Postby CbbK » Wed May 14, 2014 2:46 pm

    I would like to emphasize on the fact that only the last 24 hours of the phase count, playing immediately when the new phase begins would not give any advantage. But of course if someone doesn't/can't play during the first 24 hours then he'll have a disavantage when the score begins to be counted, the goal is to make players play more, first day to get a nice position, 2nd day to keep or improve it.
    Remember, if you can get a higher rank you not only have more points but also make others have less! If you get a new rank the player just behind you could try to reclaim his position, just because if things stay the way they are he may foreseer he'll be kicked out whatever happens so maybe he'll just play more to ensure a high vpts value and, thus, less chances to lose a position.
    Still, this solution doesn't solve the problem with timezones you're right, or perhaps make it even worse : someone in country X might be able to reclaim his position before someone in country Y, and will then keep a higher rank than Y for a longer time, and will have a higher score.
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